Staggering the pack and becomming legacy builders vs not

[ramsfan]

the thing I think you might of missed Travis is he was mentioning that on certain forums which have big backing from national organizations are the ones who are promoting the negative hype against anything but 2 wheeled bikes. and I can say I have seen this and had to deal with it on many occasions. I dont think he means a group while he was out riding started giving him trouble. when you try to explain to some of these groups your right to go the same places they do then they say (well then you was dumb for buying something that cant go where we go). And that dealerships are taking advantage of how stupid we must be to sell us these and not tell us that we cant go on there trails.

I dealt with this at an atv site and felt they were hippicrats because they themselves had to fight to be able to use trails and make them a little wider for the atvs, and the motorcycle crowd hated it and the walkers and horseback riders hate motorized vehicles on the trails they claim as theirs.

I will give you an example of this. When my wife and I went to garden of the gods in Colorado Springs I saw some deer below one of the big rock formations so I pulled off to the side and got out to take a picture. As I walked over to take a picture this guy runs up to my vehicle and yells at my wife who was clearly on the passenger side and said you are on a walking path get this vehicle out of here. Now let me explain on the ROAD there is a solid white line that keeps people who walk separate from people who drive, well I pulled off the road completly and there was enough room for a vehicle to even fit passed me on the walking trail. so nothing was blocked or unpassable, however this guy thought because he was walking and our vehicle must of crossed (his) walking area that he had a right to be a jerk to my wife when I was about 50 feet away. he then ran off as I walked up to the Jeep and I got in and my wife was upset. She said this man was out of line so I went on up the ROAD and saw him running down the walking trail towards a parking area. So I went down to ask him what his deal was and he got on a enduro motorcyle (the multi use motorcycles for trails and hiways) and acted as if I wasnt even talking to him so I did step behind him and asked again, and this is what he said I am tired of you jeepers ruining our walking areas and I cant even go on a trail without seeing a jeep there ruining it. I laughe and said first I am in a state park on a paved road for vehicles and how am I ruining it. He stated he didnt think I should be able to cross his walking path to park (yet the walking path) crosses the road dozens of times and you dont see vehicles complaining about going slow and looking for walkers. I said well next time if you feel like venting make sure the person you are yelling at is the one who did it not the passengers.

I know that I wasnt the reason he was mad, he hated jeeps and that was the exact reason for his feelings about me and my family. so someone didnt like my jeep and felt I was tearing up there trails. so if I had a motorcycle do you think he would of said the same things or would he of overlooked it and went on.

This my trail mentality is getting out of hand, any trail system should have the same access to all types of recreation. Yes there is going to be areas that can only be reached by foot but they all have trails that lead to them and I should be able to drive my ranger the same places as any other recreational vehicle. there are going to be areas that cant be widened like cliff ledges and such so we leave those alone and plan for trails around that area for the wider vehcles its a simple fix and if they invite those who wish to use the trail to come an volunter for the trail mods then we need to step up and do our part. BUt to get there we need to get our opinions lined up as one voice (mc, bike, atv, atc, utv, jeepers ) and work together to keep the trails open to all and even open more for the future.

Rhino sorry for the rambling but I feel we are thinking similar thoughts and that we just need to get on the same page, even though we might have different approaches we do have the same goal.



Oh and here are the pics I took that caused all the trouble with that guy.

[Rhino]

[quote="ff2-emtb"]"...I say that because in the 15 years of owning dirt bikes, ATV, and now my UTV, I have yet to have been a "victim" of these groups/orgnization/club whatever that he describes...."

The only 'victims' we have had here in Michigan are the many good folks past and present who have tried to get involved...yet were quickly discouraged by those they were forced to deal with
Google any similiarly sized trail system in the nation and tell me what you find in the way of multi-use organization as compared to this state with the largest maintained system ever. It's an outright embarrasment to the sport as a whole and again...many people have been turned off/away from making things any better over just plain rudeness and outright arrogance.

"....John, I'm not bashing you, but I sense in your posts an awful lot of hostility towards the groups that you obviously feel are, for lack of a better term, evil. I almost sense a personal agenda within your discussion, which is fine, thats your ideal, go for it...."

I'm not sure how asking simple questions of these people constitutes an "agenda" or how any adverse reaction to not receiving answers to same would seem "ideal" to anyone...yet yeah, it does bother me when pure arrogance gets this blatant of a 'pass' among us and worse yet is condoned by our own leaders.

"...I can appreciate wanting active discussion with national groups and am all for working together, however, lets face it. That will never happen in our lifetime because it has been so engrained into the psyche of the owners of these, or any trail type vehicle, and I include every group here, horse, bike, hiker, pogo stick, whatever...."

I guess I'm asking what pray tell this exactly "is" that's so engrained in these pshyches that forces our very own leaders to turn against us in regards to the very issues we supposedly monetarily support them over? (in other words, if "shared trails" is just some 'cute' moniker that looks good in a web address...then tell us that this will indeed "never happen in our lifetime" and we'll plow our money into focusing on/maintaining our local trails instead!

"...In a utopian society, yes, we could all have 50" or wider trails, everyone would wave and say hi to each other, and every night we would all get together and sing songs around the campfire. This, as you well know, is not utopia...."

Then again, what indeed is it?
If there are enthusiasts within any sport who don't believe that the term "ride what you brung" will have an even larger meaning to the rich and poor as motorized recreation progresses....then what are they treaching their kids to be now?...the same guys/gals who won't want anything to do with multi-use concepts in the future?

"... Call me simple, but quite frankly, I could care less right now about what a national group is doing about allowing me to ride on a trail 1000 miles from here...."

And I'm guessing that most visitors to Moab and this rally could care less what happened before or after they ride that one particular trail they've been planning for months to tackle because really...as long as the trail is open that day and they are allowed to ride it for a few hours....when in the heck are they ever going to come back and require that things need be the same once again?

"...I'm a little more concerned with getting the state of Iowa to even allow me to register my Ranger so I can ride on the the trails already here...."

And you believe that issue to be a problem in your state only?
What if your very own dear Polaris came to your state and tried to solve that problem....as they did with ours?
Now since I'm not supposed to give a damn about what goes on in "Iowa" in regards to creating true multi-use trail systems through manufacturer's help.....why should I give a rip if motorcyclists killed that groundbreaking effort in less than 26 hours and most likely your chances of Polaris moving confidentily forward with the same proposal in your state also?

"....I'll worry about national after I get state down first. I learned a long time ago that it isn't WHO you take on, but HOW you take them on that can either point towards a victory or point to a defeat...."

Since it was national support from the largest damn organization out there that effectively killed this bill http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(gxdmf3acdbybly55hjbuqq55))/mileg.aspx?page=getobject&objectname=2005-hb-5343 we'll see how the state and these same people react to your efforts regarding this type of legislation in a state with 300 acres being evidently the 'best place to ride'... http://www.racewayatv.com/atv-blog/2...g-in-iowa.html

Believe me, I'm not forcing myself or my views on you, Travis or the great state of Iowa and please accept my apology if this seems to be the case.

[Rhino]

[quote="ramsfan"]"....This my trail mentality is getting out of hand, any trail system should have the same access to all types of recreation. Yes there is going to be areas that can only be reached by foot but they all have trails that lead to them and I should be able to drive my ranger the same places as any other recreational vehicle. there are going to be areas that cant be widened like cliff ledges and such so we leave those alone and plan for trails around that area for the wider vehcles its a simple fix and if they invite those who wish to use the trail to come an volunter for the trail mods then we need to step up and do our part. BUt to get there we need to get our opinions lined up as one voice (mc, bike, atv, atc, utv, jeepers ) and work together to keep the trails open to all and even open more for the future....".

Couldn't have said it better myself and I believe a concept that requires little debate.
These kids aren't going to care who brings what to the trailhead in the future...these guys know that....and they simply fear the obvious equal power division that will/must take place in order for this to happen.(not to mention loss of control over the money/programs that many of them have built entire careers around in the shadowy past).
Follow the money, folks.....

[Supercruiser]

What ever happened to just having fun on your UTV or ATV. When did all this get so political. I must be living in a shell or something. We just have fun on these things out here in Iowa, we don't worry what groups saying or doing what. We just have fun. At least that's my own experience with the twenty other ranger owners I know. I'm glad too, it would take the fun out of the whole thing for me. I would probably just sell it if I spent my time worrying about what other people think. I am a conservative and not a liberal activist, maybe that is the difference, I'm not trying to make a difference just living my own life and minding my business. That's just my opinion though.

[ramsfan]

Originally Posted by Supercruiser

What ever happened to just having fun on your UTV or ATV. When did all this get so political. I must be living in a shell or something. We just have fun on these things out here in Iowa, we don't worry what groups saying or doing what. We just have fun. At least that's my own experience with the twenty other ranger owners I know. I'm glad too, it would take the fun out of the whole thing for me. I would probably just sell it if I spent my time worrying about what other people think. I am a conservative and not a liberal activist, maybe that is the difference, I'm not trying to make a difference just living my own life and minding my business. That's just my opinion though.

that works fine for now but the catch to it is when we choose to do nothing to guarante the same rights to our children. while you and I go ride and just have fun there are these fanatics out there saying we are ruining the environment and they cant go anywhere without hearing the loud engines and seeing the ruts we carves in (their) trails. then beings we done get involved the states and or countys take action andstart closing areas to ohv's and then you will ask what happened to those favorite trails. of cource you can always buy land just to ride on and then beings your neibors dont like the noice they complain like they are doing in some of the other states and then you get told you have to obide by a sound ordinance.

I can say that I feel like just riding and having fun but when I really think about it I know that Myself and many others would be selfesh if we sat back and did nothing to asure others of the same rights in the future.

[Supercruiser]

Right now there are no trails anywhere in Iowa where it is legal to ride a Ranger. Private land is your only choice. ATV trails from what I understand are for less than 50" vehicles only and have to be titled. UTV's can't be titled in Iowa. So really there is no argument out here about trails except for the fact that it I suppose it would be would be nice for people without private land to have a place to ride. Right now I can't see why anyone without private land would even buy a UTV in Iowa. I suppose if I lived in a state where there was controversy over this topic I may feel differently but right now I don't see a problem. I am new to the UTV/ATV thing so that may be the difference. I haven't got all caught up in the hype I just bought it to have something else to have fun with just like my boat. It has been my experience in getting laws changed that until a member of the state legislature buys a UTV for one of his spoiled rotten children and they start crying to daddy that they have no place to ride, you can probably forget about change. Politicians seem to do nothing for the people unless they can see a benefit for themselves.

[ravencr]

So where do you ride in Iowa if all the trails are less than 50" wide? Truck trails?

Chris

[Supercruiser]

Chris, that's my point exactly. There is no place to "legally ride" in Iowa to my knowledge unless your on private property. Someone join in here if they have knowledge of some place I'm not aware of. As I said before we can't even register these things and have no ownership papers. I have a cabin at a private lake and we have trails all over in the woods so I have no problem finding a a great spot to ride. We also ride on the rural dirt roads but that is definitely illegal but we have not been caught yet and would guess it would just be like a traffic ticket. That's why I don't know why you would even own one here without first finding a place to ride the things. Everyone I know here that has one lives at the lake or has plenty of private ground to ride on. You are lucky in Colorado to have all those great places to ride. Even if there was no 50" rule, there is a law that requires the vehicle must be registered and that is not possible here in Iowa for rangers. Crazy huh?

[ravencr]

Yeah, but you should be able to ride on the truck trails because they're wide enough.

Chris

[Supercruiser]

I'm not sure if we have truck trails or not anywhere in Iowa. It still wouldn't matter though the big problem is it's not legal to ride a non-registered vehicle. Below is a post from Nick 858 from the PRC forum. He obviously knows more about this than I do, here is what he says about the law after I asked him why he wants to be able to register his Ranger. I only ride on private grounds so none of this had ever occured to me.


There are several ATV parks in Iowa. They are free. iowaohv.com has the list I believe. Now its not that they dont allow UTVs at the parks, the only requirement is that your vehicle must be registered. Obviously, then, you cant ride there. Anything other than private property you must be registered to ride on, there again, cant register. You cant just ride anywhere on the state parks either, but they allow use of an ATV on the ice, just like allowing a boat on the open water. There again with no registration it is not legal.
It doesnt work to tell the DNR that you cannot register your UTV either, they will still write a ticket. I know the extra fees are not something I like either, but without owning any property myself, and not being a farmer, there is no place to ride my Ranger LEGALLY.