Staggering the pack and becomming legacy builders vs not

[Rhino]

Great forum!
Just a couple of questions:

#1) Has anybody in the Moab or Paiute Trail area started renting Rhinos or Prowlers? I'll never haul a rig that far (we're from the midwest); yet am anxious to ride these areas in the comfort that a non bench-type seat rig provides.

#2) Do all event organizers still demand that every member of each group setting out each day...largely eat each others dust all day long? I finally quit going to these large group outings after it seemed that the concept of radio 'hoppping' back and forth down the line seemed at best foreign to most and at worst just 'a hastle' to those primarily in the front of the pack not eating any dust to begin with.
FRS/GMRS radios are cheap and allow (preferrably very small) groups to spread themselves out over significant distances only limited by the overall intelligence of those operating same. Short signals are agreed upon; talk is limited and nobody is left behind because everybody has a direct responsibility agreed to beforehand.

#3) Has anybody in the UTV/SXS world gotten beyond talking about mods and planning outings to delve into how our machines fit politically into the orv mix? True multi-use trail systems are definitely not a 'given' in today's "every machine for themselves" leadership-less local/national organizational level and the subject is definitely not coming up in forestry travel manangement workshops sponsored by these very same people (with "closed unless posted open" most likely being the most important subject manner to ever affect this sport).

Thanks for your thoughts,

John

[ravencr]

Originally Posted by Rhino

Great forum!
Just a couple of questions:

#1) Has anybody in the Moab or Paiute Trail area started renting Rhinos or Prowlers? I'll never haul a rig that far (we're from the midwest); yet am anxious to ride these areas in the comfort that a non bench-type seat rig provides.

Yes, Cliffhanger Rentals will be supplying Yamaha Rhinos. Their contact info is:

Trevor 435-259-0889 info@cliffhangerjeeprental.com

#2) Do all event organizers still demand that every member of each group setting out each day...largely eat each others dust all day long? I finally quit going to these large group outings after it seemed that the concept of radio 'hoppping' back and forth down the line seemed at best foreign to most and at worst just 'a hastle' to those primarily in the front of the pack not eating any dust to begin with.
FRS/GMRS radios are cheap and allow (preferrably very small) groups to spread themselves out over significant distances only limited by the overall intelligence of those operating same. Short signals are agreed upon; talk is limited and nobody is left behind because everybody has a direct responsibility agreed to beforehand.

Sounds good to me!

#3) Has anybody in the UTV/SXS world gotten beyond talking about mods and planning outings to delve into how our machines fit politically into the orv mix? True multi-use trail systems are definitely not a 'given' in today's "every machine for themselves" leadership-less local/national organizational level and the subject is definitely not coming up in forestry travel manangement workshops sponsored by these very same people (with "closed unless posted open" most likely being the most important subject manner to ever affect this sport).

Do you have something in mind? We definitely won't restrict anyone from talking about it!

Chris

[Rhino]

Thanks, Chris for the help.
I always thought that a simple 'bump' on the send button to announce that you're still alive; be it either static or a tone (a feature on some models) could keep any spread out group as a whole in line sans all the sometimes annoying chatter. Simply give each pair down the line their own frequency; along with the frequency of the next group fore. aft or both that they are not responsible for keeping in contact with....a unique number in the line to identify yourself with....and nobody gets left behind no matter how long the line gets.

In regards to having something in mind on the subject of creating true multi-use legacies....I'm just curious as to how many out there are willing to buck the current establishment not desiring that this particular subject matter necessarily be brought up or worse yet 'discussed' in the first place.
ATVS and side-by-sides are the biggest potential political force in riding today and (ironically) a group who I have never seen discriminate as far as who brings what to the trailhead. Unfortunately, we are also the least respected of the groups out there for the simple reason that we have never forced the same "we all must work together" crap that national groups have collected our money over with minimal results on a nationwide basis.
The only way every sport within our so-called "community" will ever start acting like same; is to force every 'light' motorized sport onto the same trails while working on the same projects.
You can't allow motorcyclists their own "me-only" trails (continually brainwashing generation after generation with this outdated and arrogant attitude) [b]if you don't allow every single other group that comes along the same ridiculous "God-given" right!
Believe me, kids today could care less who brings what to the trailhead and will even less tomorrow.
And why is that?
Because more than half of them will be riding our old used machines for simple priority-based monetary reasons and just be glad that their buddy has something that runs! (which is basically the way we felt when off-road motorized recreation began and before off-road cyclists started copping the purely elitist attitude you witness today.
There's a difference between dividing the communtiy (as what many would claim is talked about here)...and out-loud wondering just why/how we've become divided in the first place.

[ravencr]

Rhino, please update your city and state in the location box in your profile. In addition, please add your name to your signature. Thanks!

In reference to your response above, I hear ya. I hope you can make the trip, because I think you'll be very impressed with how well everyone works together in Moab.

Chris

[ramsfan]

Sorry but at first you lost me I am just a country boy and some of the words lost me then I read it again and focused on the part, that hints on the this trail is only for my kind of vehicle (yours doesnt count) and that is something I have noticed alot. While we are all fighting to exist in our individual ideas of riding, there are the so called tree huggers who are jumping on the bandwagon and putting us against each other. and it is working well for them. because while we turn our backs on each other they are sneaking in and saying (see what they are doing they are tearing up all our land) and the park getting tired of all the fighting are giving in and closing trail because we cant all agree to share the experience.

[66cummins]

Rhino,,
Lets not beat around the bush,,What exactly are you trying to say?

[kevlar]

As far as trail communication goes, we do it the old fashion way; i.e. the guy in front is responsible for the guy directly behind him. They dont have to stay in visual sight but the front guy has to stop at every fork and make sure the guy behind him sees which way he goes. With that being said I do think it would be a good idea if the entire group monitors the same FRS radio (if they have them) channel so help can be called for if needed.

Also GPS should be standard equipment, IMO.

[ravencr]

What is FRS?

Chris

[Rhino]

Originally Posted by ravencr

"...In reference to your response above, I hear ya. I hope you can make the trip, because I think you'll be very impressed with how well everyone works together in Moab....."
Chris

I'm already impressed with what's been done in Utah, Quebec and every other true large multi-use system out there. For years, national orv leaders have been holding up these areas instead of larger money-maintained areas such as Michigan to beg dues money off of 'non-westerners' forced to tow the single-use "there is no god before the AMA" line.
Michigan single track leaders here have even tried to ridiculously point to the multi-use Paiute as some kind of blueprint for everybody 'but them' (the nationally supported single trackers) to follow.....while they arrogantly snuck around behind the majority community's back lobbying for yet more "shut 'em all out" single track! (it's pretty damn bad when you can't even get forestry travel management workshop agendas opened up for simple Q and A periods for fear of 'working together' subjects being thrown in these people's faces).
Lobbying for true multi-use trails all around this country and not just where these cyclists will "allow it" has become just as important to me as finally shining a light on how closed the political process has been on these issues for decades. Few young kids are becomming involved in the orv political process or being taught to throw aside these arrogant "me-only-trail" notions that they've been brainwashed into believing by these old single trackers....and for what reason?

Because every person (including me) that has come down the pipe with the stones to question just why we haven't all worked for all these decades....has been drummed out of this community just as damn fast.

Sorry to 'rant'....yet it's a subject interwined with proper maintenance of our trails; pay-to-play and a myriad of other subjects that few seem very willing to talk about for our kid's sake.("hey, I'm to busy modding my rig and worrying about who will bring those 'weenies' to that next big ride to care about whether my kid is taught about standing up for true multi-use issues or working together on those same trails.....).

[Rhino]

Originally Posted by 66cummins

Rhino,,
Lets not beat around the bush,,What exactly are you trying to say?

(lol)....cummmins, I've been called "the single most dangerous threat to Michigan motorized recreation in decades" by 'the God' of orving at the single largest maintained system in this country....so it is anybody's guess as to just what bush I'll be beating around at any given time.

I quit fighting for issues quite some time back and switched more to shining a light under the rock that these national orv leaders have been hiding under and the rude treatment I can only guess others have received for asking much simpler questions than I have (although I'm guessing that being bashed for pointing out prematurely closed workshop registration dates or asking for simple Q and A periods at these same workshops....is about as simple a questionas anybody else would've asked).

I don't like folks who feel the need to hide behind some curtain over 'trails' for gosh sake....and like even less those who protect those that do on the national level.
Many times, (as in Michigan's present case) orv groups are being protected for the simple reason that literally tens of millions of dollars are at stake ready to flow into a single or few group's pockets....and they obviously just don't desire any kind of 'debate' to take place as to just how that money will be spent! (example; we just freed up $4 million last month and are on course to most likely double our sticker price (needed)...do you think that subject just might maybe oughta make it onto an agenda for the next forestry service workshop...so that the riding public gets a public position as to just how funds should be spent in the future from both our guys and theirs? (not to mention the public itself?).